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Providing straightforward information pertaining to drugs, drug use & drug policy. The Grey Pages promotes drug-related literacy and advocates a system of viable and tolerant drug policies. This is my personal collection of commentaries, essays, tid-bits, and other such writings on everything ranging from drug use, drug policy and drug-myths, to drug-science, addiction, human behavior, and the workings of the human brain. I started this blog with a particular focus on opioids, and over the past year have found my interest gravitate toward the intriguing, ever-changing world of designer intoxicants (i.e. "research chemicals" or "designer drugs").

Tuesday, February 1, 2011

Reader Comment Re: Intranasal Dilaudid (Hydromorphone)



A reader says:

"Snorting the powder of a 4mg hydromorphone tablet will be similar in strength to snorting the powder of a 30mg oxycodone tablet - a blue 'roxicodone' pill for example; or to snorting the powder of 60mg of morphine - or an orange 'MS' 60"

I dont know about this one. 4mg of hydromorph is sooooo sooooo weak when sniffed. a 30 is actually ok. i could sniff 6 8mg dillys (tons of powder mind you) and not feel too much of anything, but 3 roxis and im rocked. idk, maybe just me

Thanks for your comment, and this is my reply:


Hey there, I'm not shocked to hear that. Bioavailability for a given ROA will vary between individuals; however 50 percent nasally (VS 25% oral) is generally the average absorbtion for hydromorphone, assuming it's the hydrochloride salt and in a relatively pure form - Because consider this; a 4mg Dilaudid/HM tablet will contain only 4 milligrams of the active hydromorphone, a MINISCULE, tiny amount of actual powder, with the large majority of the pill being inactive binder, which will largely affect the absorbtion of HM into mucus membranes. On the other hand, a blue Roxicodone tablet will contain 30mg of active oxycodone, not much powder but a relatively higher ratio of oxycodone powder to inactive filler.. this difference is likely to make roxicodone tablets slightly (not too much) better absorbed by the intranasal route - This is only likely to make a minor difference; versus say if you snorted a pure form of hydromorphone USP grade powder.. The main difference I believe with these two by the nasal route, is that oxycodone is pharmacokinetically more suited for non injection routes, mainly in the sense that oxycodone is still highly euphoric by oral or nasal ROA, regardless of how gradually it may rech the brain. Hydromorphone on the other hand, carries a euphoria/high/rush which is largely dependent upon how rapidly it reaches the brain/CNS. A large part of hydromorphone's pleasure lies within that sudden rush when injected - this applies to most morphine derivatives. Hydromorphone (along with morphine and oxymorphone), in a general sense, do not have the especially euphoric/buzz-like properties of oxycodone or hydrocodone. With any non injected route, hydromorphone is often less euphoric than oxycodone regardless of potency - some people could snort one dilaudid after the next, and the next, to the brink of respiratory failure and overdose - without feeling the same strong sensations associated with an Oxy-buzz. All opioids are essentially very similar, yet so unique at the very same time in regards to "what they do", "how they feel", and which route "feels" better; this is not always consistent with the absorbtion and bioavailabilty; but often more-so with brain penetration, tissue distribution, and pharmacokinetics of the particular drug.

On a final note: I could bet my left nut that 16-20mg of hydromorph in the form of a 2ml purified nasal spray, would get you nicely rocked. And be much more effective.

Also, it is important to keep in mind that there are many angles which one can analyze the opioids. Therapeutic use and recreational/habitual use are two completely different things, and will bring completely different effects at differing doses, by various routes. Certain opioids regardless of their bioavailability are very different in terms of euphoric effect.

The more exact equivalent will be 4 mg hydromorphone nasal VS 22 mg oxycodone nasal

22 comments:

  1. In my honest opinion, I haven't done a dilaudid in over 30 years. I can though remember the awesome rush it provided when shooting it!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It;s so painful it hurts so good. NOTHING in the world iike the profound, crippigli16 mg;s course through your boy. BIG rush you get from it, cheek resterd against the steering wheeland you swearing explatives as those Is it better than sex? Yes an no- it's than mediocre one-nights stands, bad sex and pity sex YOU"RE getting- but goodaaaym is it equisite. And itd doesn
      t lst long. At all. Sujectively anyway. Your pupils are stil constricted and youre acting a little goofy, but you don't *feel* high. So you do another 8 an hour or two later and it's a waste. Short term tollerance builds fast but fades after 6-8 hours.

      Delete
  2. Very well-done narco-blog. Your research is accurate and in-depth. I am a long-time aficionado of Eurojunk and remember the days when one could purchase Paracodin® and Reasec® (diphenoxylate) over the counter in several countries, e.g. Germany, Switzerland, and the Benelux countries. These were not the exotic, über-euphoric drugs like the ones you write about yet in high doses (>75mg) they provide a decent opiate high.

    I am curious as to how you were fortunate enough to procure some of these drugs, especially Palfium and Diconal. I also found your comparison of the bioavailability of HM and oxycodone interesting, and your conclusion about the superiority of OC is logical and correct.

    Two grammatical points to consider:

    1) sole vs soul — you used the word "soul"in a previous blog to mean lone when the correct usage would have been "sole."

    2) its vs. it's — "its" is a pronoun and never has an apostrophe. The only time "it's" is used is when it is a contraction of "it is")

    Keep up the excellent work!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. darn literature... you know what he meant 'nd tats al dat madders'

      Delete
  3. Iv done alot of oxy over the years and have a major tolerance for opies I happen to run across dillies today and I looked up everyones opinions saying its no good unless iv'd well I dont shoot nothing ever and never will so I snorted 4mgs unlike oxy it was not instant so decide ok im going to need another I was ok nice buzz. Yea....by the time I got home I was seeing fuzzy things were swaying a bit nose started itching and bam! Intense rush head and body high with a blissful euphoric nod wich oxy hasn't done in over a year and I take 80 to 100mgs anyways I was blasted beyond belief I know it had to be similar to H and it lasted a good 6 hours so anybody that says dillies are a waste if you snort them is probably a big time junkie trying to get you to shoot up and become as bad as them so what im saying I snorted 8mgs of dilaudid and it blew me away like I snorted 3 roxie 30s at once so yea imo nasal for dillies works excellent atleast the first time you do em. True facts from a fellow oppie lover I also had a few mixed drinks not drunk but a buzz wich I always have one or two anyways with my oxy so nothing different I say if you have a moderate opiate tolerance snorting a 8mg dillie is a wonderful experience 9 out of 10. I also have about 10 more ill wait a few days and try again so no tolerance builds up and let you know if I get the same effect. dont let these idiot junkies talk you into shooting up snorting it worked great for me just as I thought it would

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. and it's crazy I don't shoot nor snort but I snorted a dillie for the first time a 4mg and it was one of the best highs I ever had better than orally taking a perk 30

      Delete
    2. Dilaudid is 5-8x more potent than Morphine. With a modest tolerance I could def feel a nice light buzz from only one 1mg IR tab(in Canada). Plugging is the way to go though...2nd best to IVing the shit. ANYWAYS, great site man. PEACE!!!

      Delete
  4. And yes they were the m/4 instants before anyone starts saying they were prolly the er nope I know my shit and dont want to hear well it didn't kick in instantly because you didn't shoot it heard it dont care

    ReplyDelete
  5. Actually, Big Pharma needs to just add 2ml saline to 2mg Afrin, then put in 10 4mg of Dilaudid. The acidity of the nose spray would help to breakdown fillers, while causing the nasal mucosa to shrink (ie: vasoconstrict), which would essentially'lock' everything immediately into the sinus cavities and stop the nasal drainage (the sniffles). I dont understand why they even make Dilaudid for oral admin... Guess its best to wait for them to produce it, for both legal as well as avoiding a possible od from ones making the solution to strong, but its still interesting to read about how other people deal with their own chronic pain issues.



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